I've always wondered:

"Wheelerguy" (wheelerguy) 05/23/2018 at 10:20 • Filed to: XKCD, F1, Fighter Jets

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Given the right training, do you think F1 and LMP1 drivers can become competent jet fighter pilots?

This came up after !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! I made where I put F1 drivers on the same level as fighter pilots and some commenters chimed in, saying F1 drivers probably have to react far faster with even more information.

Personally I thought it was just a bit of hogwash, as fighter pilots need a different set of skills and reflex tuning to be ready for combat no matter the range, but I can see how an F1 driver can have what it takes to fly an F-22 and its rivals.

WilliamsSW > Wheelerguy 05/23/2018 at 10:26

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Do they shoot at F1 drivers?

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Wheelerguy 05/23/2018 at 10:28

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I think they have the same skill sets, just different applications. I’d bet an F1 driver could become a top level fighter pilot much faster than someone plucked off the street.

jimz > Wheelerguy 05/23/2018 at 10:32

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even the best F1 driver would probably pass out from the first hard turn in a fighter jet.

I don’t know what it is about hardcore F1 fans that makes them so unhinged.

ttyymmnn > Wheelerguy 05/23/2018 at 10:34

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I think the skill set is similar, but you can’t eject from an F1 car in case of emergency. But that would be cool. Put a zero-zero ejection seat in an F1 car. Too bad Bernie’s gone. He’d love it.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Wheelerguy 05/23/2018 at 10:34

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I don’t know if the skill sets swap. F1 drivers understand grip exceptionally well. Pilots understand lift/drag/thrust in 3D. Factor in friend/foe identification. I think both are immensely talented at their specific craft but I don’t think one could easily pickup the other. 

Tom Cruise might be the answer. He clicked off some impressive lap times in an F1 car and rolled a helicopter. That is more overlap than probably most people on the planet.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Wheelerguy 05/23/2018 at 10:38

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Both have to “read” the reaction of their machine with a certain sensitivity, which is often more instinctual than trained. E.g. Niki Lauda in Rush and his “ass”. Both also have to constantly reset their subjective senses while experiencing G-forces, maintain a high level of awareness, and react to things quickly. However...

An F1 driver has to constantly study minutiae of the track ahead, and react to hazards in the close field. In addition, they must rely on a feel of the track, something that doesn’t have a clear analog in flight - the closest thing being feeling stall or turbulence. In contrast, the pilot must keep a speed sense with the aircraft dependent on not only throttle but the attitude of the nose, and the up-down dimension complicates other things as well. The pilot must look far ahead and feel his machine - all else numb - and the driver must look shortly ahead, feeling the road, and imagine the feeling of the road just ahead. The pilot tries to find his way close to his opponent in three dimensions, the driver is already close in two, too close, and must find his way past within constraints. A lot of subtle differences.

This isn’t to say one can’t become the other, but that there’s enough difference that it wouldn’t be automatic. Michael Jordan playing baseball, that kind of thing.

facw > Wheelerguy 05/23/2018 at 10:40

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I mean, given the right training, I’d imagine a lot of people would be competent fighter pilots. The training is how to get there. I think the racing drivers would have a few advantages over a regular person off the street. They are normally in good physical condition, which will allow them to better handle the G-forces, they probably have a good understanding about momentum and preserving speed (obviously there are different maneuvers in a plane than in a car, but I’d imagine they’d have a pretty intuitive grasp of what and how their dog fighting techniques are trying to accomplish). Quick reflexes may be a help, but planes (neither yours nor your opponents) can turn on a dime, so combat is as much about determining what you want to do and executing it, as opposed to yanking the stick as quickly as you can.

That said, there are plenty of ways a racing driver is no better than the average person. Indeed since many have been racing all their lives, they may have suffered in terms of education (it’s going to be hard to be an effective pilot without a working knowledge of physics, and there are many other disciplines that could help).

E90M3 > WilliamsSW 05/23/2018 at 10:44

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Do they have a Grand Prix in Aleppo?

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Wheelerguy 05/23/2018 at 10:45

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I dunno...but I could fuck up both machines within about 0.7 seconds of getting behind the respective controls...and that’s pretty damned fast.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Future next gen S2000 owner 05/23/2018 at 11:08

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For Sweden > Wheelerguy 05/23/2018 at 11:17

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What driver’s ed class only takes 20 minutes?

Also, I think fighter pilot’s reflexes are compatible with F1 drivers. People think the rarity of F1 drivers compared to fighter pilots makes them more skilled, but if hundreds of nation-states used military budgets to develop F1 drivers, we would have many more F1 drivers.

BigBlock440 > facw 05/23/2018 at 11:22

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I mean, given the right training, I’d imagine a lot of people would be competent fighter pilots.

I guess it depends on what you’d consider “a lot”. Something like 2% of the population (which I guess is actually a lot) has the natural ability or cognitive function to be a fighter pilot, from some kind of study. A similar (or the same) study showed that that 2% was the amount of people who could safely talk on the phone and drive (bluetooth or otherwise) due to their ability to divide their attention. I’d assume F1 drivers would fall into that same category.

WilliamsSW > Future next gen S2000 owner 05/23/2018 at 11:24

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I think there are quite a few race car drivers with pilots licenses - - and I would be willing to bet many of them do aerobatics.

I think there’s a lot of overlap between the skill sets, but they’re not exactly the same. And anyone who thinks that an F1 driver needs to “know” more than a fighter pilot is grossly underestimating the amount of classroom study/learning that a fighter pilot goes through.

Urambo Tauro > facw 05/23/2018 at 11:28

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...there are plenty of ways a racing driver is no better than the average person.

Interesting point. For one thing, the average driver isn’t tasked with constantly driving their car on the bleeding edge of grip. The crashes that we see “normal” drivers getting into are less about driving skill, and more about decision-making and self-control. And those are things that some racing drivers seem to struggle with too.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Ash78, voting early and often > Wheelerguy 05/23/2018 at 11:28

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Complete apples and oranges. Just because they both sit in fast-moving vehicles does not mean there’s overlap, unless you’re including “having a Type A personality” among the criteria.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > For Sweden 05/23/2018 at 11:31

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Obviously, not a German one

user314 > WilliamsSW 05/23/2018 at 11:35

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That’d make the races more interesting...

For Sweden > WilliamsSW 05/23/2018 at 11:38

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Depends on if Maldonado still supports the regime

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Wheelerguy 05/23/2018 at 11:57

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I can imagine there is some overlap in the skill sets. While not at nearly the same level, most of the people I’ve known with pilots licenses are also road racers holding competition licenses. They’ve told me that flying as an activity is to some degree a different application of many of the same skills to be a road racer.